Why has O'Brien never told this story before? Why does he decide to do so now?
Describe Elroy and analyze his influence on O'Brien and his ultimate decision. How does O'Brien reach his decision about whether or not to go to war? What role does shame/embarrassment/masculinity play in this decision?
What were your thoughts while reading this section? As always, feel free to respond to the above prompts or add your own ideas, questions, and interpretations. You may also respond to your classmates' posts, so we can have some interesting exchanges and debates.
The chapter is a story O'Brien never told before, and decide to do it now. O'Brien didn't told this story because it is an embarrassment. He feel ashamed of himself for running away and give up half way to go to war because of society's pressure. He is ashamed of himself for not speaking up and protest against it. At the end of the Chapter, he stated "I was a coward. I went to war". What it sounds like to me is "I was a coward for going to war". He decide to go to war because he give in to his fear of embarrassment. His embarrassment of being called a coward by his friends and neighbors. His embarrassment of himself running away and lose the respect of his parents. He could fight back and protest about the war but instead he went back and go to war doing nothing. Elroy is like a fictional character that just appears in the life of O'Brien and help him through the hard time, and guide him make the decision in his heart. Elroy takes O'Brien to the Rainy River to hint O'Brien that running from problem is not going to help. Elroy is the transition stage for O'Brien to realize what he should do. I think that Elroy is like the trigger to O'Brien's action. The part I don't understand is how O'Brien just starts to cry, what did he see from the river that triggered his feeling?
ReplyDeleteThe chapter “On the Rainy River” is a story that O’Brien has never told, but decides to write it to get it off his chest. The story is about his hesitant decision to go to war. At first, O’Brien was scared. He did not know what to do or say. He did not speak up and protest about going to war. This made him panic and make the decision to run away to Canada. He would run away from life in America, his job, family, and friends so that he did not have to participate in doing the patriotic thing to go to war. O’Brien was fighting an internal conflict of staying alive and disappointment and embarrassment from his peers. He feared both sides but decides to go to war in order to not have to face the embarrassment of his peers and himself. I believe that O’Brien would have not made the decision to go back and face the war if it had not been Elory’s pressure. Elory is an old man who offers O’Brien food, shelter, and friendship as O’Brien attempts to dodge the draft and head for Canada. O'Brien considers Elory to be his “life hero” because he is his mental support and guidance of making his decision. Elory takes to O’Brien to the Rainy River where O’Brien finally gets the hint that running away will not help the situation. Although Elory never verbally tells O’Brien what to do, O’Brien is able to make his ultimate decision. Internal and external influences play an important role in everyday decisions. If O’Brien had made the decision to flee and his peers accepted it, would his guilt eventually get the best of him?
ReplyDeleteThis chapter tells a story that has been told to nobody else in O’ Brien’s life. He has not told anyone because he finds it embarrassing and shameful. He tells it now because he hopes to relieve the pressure that it made him feel. O’ Brien was faced with the choice of either going to war or running away to Canada. He felt self pity and anger, seeming he did not believe that this war was necessary to begin with. One day, he impulsively decided to run to Canada, and spent six days at Elroy’s cabins. Elroy was an old man of about 80, who rarely talked yet always seemed to know what you were thinking. He took O’ Brien in without asking any questions, and soon picked up on what he wanted to do. On the sixth day they went out fishing on the Rainy River, and he imagined all these people watching him. Elroy did not say anything, but he still influenced O’ Brien’s decision. The choice was made because he knew that people back home would talk about him. He did not want to be viewed as a coward or a disappointment by his own family and friends. Additionally, he knew that running away would not solve his problems. If anything, it would make him live with the guilt for the rest of his life. Shame and embarrassment are the reasons he chose to go back home. Even in current day, people constantly feel the pressure of appearing strong and brave.
ReplyDeleteThroughout much of “The Things They Carried” O’Brien makes it very clear that he is not in support of the war. This becomes especially clear in the chapter “On the Rainy River”. O’Brien does not support going to war and, because of this, doesn’t think that he of all people should be required to serve in it. Of course, there are some instants in which he believes that going to war is necessary- such as World War Two. This, however, is not one of them. As he is not one of the people who believe in the war, he doesn’t think that he should be forced to serve in it. O’Brien is against the war and what it stands for. Despite how strongly he feels about the war, despite how much he doesn’t want to serve in it and further it, he goes to war. Serving in this war goes against what he believes in and what he wants to do. Still, he does it. He does it because there are certain expectations that people are held to and he fears not meeting those expectations. If he runs away, he will bring shame upon his family name. His family will believe him to be a coward. His entire town will be humiliated by his actions. O’Brien does not want to serve in the war- he does not want there to be a war. Despite this, he serves in the war because the fear of what people will think of him once he does so overpowers everything else. He calls himself a coward because, instead of doing what he believes in, he goes to war. O’Brien is given a chance by Elroy to flee to Canada do dodge the draft. He desperately wants to take this opportunity to reach his on personal freedom from the draft. Despite this, he serves because he fears what people will say and think of him if he does not. He would rather fight in a war he wants nothing to do with and put his life on the line than risk the chance of his town be embarrassed by his actions. This is what makes O’Brien a coward in his eyes.
ReplyDeleteWhen O’Brien talks about being a coward for going to war, he is referring to why he is going, not what he is doing. He is only going to war because he is afraid of being made fun of for not going, not because he wants to do what is right for the world. I agree with the shame he is feeling while also understanding why he feels the way he does (However, the mechanically similar situations that I have been in are not nearly as important or stressful as war). When I am placed in a situation and I want to do the right thing for any reason more than that it is the right thing to do, I am often ashamed of myself and try to realign my moral compass. This story of O’Brien’s shame being kept in for so long causes him to finally want to tell it. He has held it in for so long because he is embarrassed, but decides to let it out because of the emotional baggage of keeping something so damaging to him in for so long. Adding to this shame and forcing O’Brien to make his decision sooner is the owner of the hotel, Elroy. He brings O’Brien so close to Canada, the place O’Brien was both drawn to and mentally repelled. It is in the temptation of running away that O’Brien vividly imagines all the people who would be ashamed of him, causing him to want to be more manly and head to war.
ReplyDeleteIn the chapter, On the Rainy River, O'Brien decides to go to war. I believe he calls himself a coward for making this decision because he knew that all the people in his present life would be ashamed of him. I do believe O'Brien was a coward because he made the decision to go to war based off of the wrong reasons. I believe that if you are going to do something in life you should have the right mindset before making the decision and make sure it's what is right for your life and your morals, not other's lives and their morals. O'Brien has never told this story before because he knows how embarrassing it is, and it's not the person he wants to be or wants people to think he is. However, I believe he decided to share the story now because he realized that the story is a part of him, and played a big part in making him the person he is now. Stories like these can only be hidden and kept inside a person, so he decided to finally share it so some weight of this heavy story could be lifted off his shoulders. The person that played a large role in O'Brien's decision to go to war was the hotel owner, Elroy. Elroy was a wise, old man that connected with O'Brien and was able to help O'Brien make the decision not to run away to Canada. Putting O'Brien in the physical position on the lake right next to Canada, Elroy let O'Brien's emotions all come out so that he could finally see that running away to Canada was the wrong decision. Seeing all his friends, family, and people he would meet in the future on that beach in his vision made him make his decision to go to war. He saw all the people in his life/future life and couldn't bare the thought of him being an embarrassment to them or letting them down. Shame and embarrassment can often times play a large role in the decisions I make in life. However, if I catch myself letting those factors slip in I try as hard as I can to get into the correct mindset that way I am making the best decision for my life.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien calls himself a coward because he chickened out of escaping the draft. I agree that he was a coward, because his decision to go to war was based off of reasons that aren't exactly right. O'Brien has never told this story simply because it's embarrassing and he doesn't want people to see that side of him. I think he decided to tell the story now because he realized that the decision he made is a part of who he is. I also feel like he told the story to get it off of his chest. A person can only hold on to something like that for so long. Elroy was a quiet, wise old man that played a huge role in O'Brien's decision. He was the owner of the place that O'Brien stayed at. He influenced O'Brien's decision by bringing him to the border and letting O'Brien work his emotions out right there, which helped O'Brien realize that he was making his decision for all the wrong reasons. While embarrassment did play a role in his decision, it shouldn't have. No one should let masculinity or humility or anything like that have a say in how that person is living, because he/she shouldn't care about what other people think.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of this chapter, Tim O'Brien calls himself a coward because he let his pride overpower his morality. O'Brien's beliefs contradicted with the idea of going to war, and when he was drafted, O'Brien thought there was no way he would ever take part in a war he believed did not need to happen. Later, on the Rainy River, O'Brien discovered he simply could not deal with the total embarrassment of giving his own nation the cold shoulder and not going to the war. I believe that in this situation, O'Brien's decision was one out of cowardice and fear. If O'Brien had simply went to the war because he believed in it, this would have been a different story, but O'Brien did not believe in the cause of the war. Because O'Brien could not stand up for his own beliefs against unnecessary violence overseas and instead took the easy way out and went to the war, O'Brien was indeed a coward. I believe Elroy Berdahl was the perfect person O'Brien could have met to truly figure out what he was feeling on the inside, even if he did not do a lot. Elroy may not have spoke much, but his actions and understanding of O'Brien spoke volumes. Elroy himself did not even have to do much of anything to convince O'Brien of what to do, but really just played on O'Brien's conscience. On the day that Elroy took O'Brien out on Rainy River, O'Brien had an almost outer body experience of futures that would happen base don his decision that day. O'Brien dealt with issues of being "masculine" or not, staying true to his own morals, and dealing with possible shame from his peers. All the while, Elroy just sat on the other side of the boat and tried not to notice O'Brien's complete breakdown. If I were in O'Brien's shoes during this difficult decision, I truly do not know what I would do. Of course, it would be easy to type out the noble answer and say "well I think I would go to Canada to stay true to myself," and I think that is a very respectable decision. On the other hand, I do not know if I would be able to deal with the shame that would ultimately come out of that the decision, as well as the pressure and headache of pretty much starting a whole new life in a different country. The fight of morals versus shame is truly a hard one to speculate and although I believe O'Brien's decision was made wholly out of fear, I cannot say it was a much easier decision than the other side.
ReplyDeleteWhen O'Brien calls himself a coward, it isn't because he ended up going to war, it is why he went to war. Out of embarrassment, the fear that he wouldn't be accepted by his peers or family. He finally decides to tell his story to hopefully alleviate the shame that was building up inside of him.
ReplyDeleteI personally liked Elroy's personality. He obviously had his own opinions like any human being would, but he never directly stated them. He would do certain things or ask certain questions that would make O'Brien think about his course of action and decide what was the best decision. O'Brien made his final decision on the Rainy River after Elroy hinted that running away wouldn't solve his problems. Embarrassment from his peers' opinions plays a big role in this story, but would Elroy's influence still cause him to go to war if his peers weren't a factor?
I think O'Brien feels like a coward because he couldn't get himself to run away. I disagree with him because I see that as the easy way out and it would define someone who runs from every problem. O'Brien has never told this story because it has embarrassed him. I think he tells it now because he isn't afraid any longer of what others might think. I liked this section and how Elroy was very respectful. He didn't necessarily agree with O'Brien at first but he helped him in his crisis. Elroy never told O'Brien what decision to make but through silence, he made O'Brien search deep inside his own feelings and come to a conclusion. I think it was brave of O'Brien to turn back home.
ReplyDeleteWhile O'Brien thinks he is a coward, I think that he is the opposite. He believes that he is a coward because he didn't have the courage to run away to Canada, but instead he caved into the pressure of going to the war. He has never told the story before because he was afraid of being embarrassed, hence his thought of himself being a coward. I think he decides to tell the story to the readers because he doesn't care what other people think about him anymore. Elroy had a major influence on O'Brien's decision. The man was literally all ears, he listened to whatever Tim had to say, and he understood what Tim was going through without even needing to talk. Tim O'Brien decides to stay even when he is a mere 20 yards from Canada. He didn't want to hide in Canada, and he especially didn't want to leave his life behind. Elroy gave him a choice, and he decided to stay. He would be ashamed to leave his family behind along with his childhood memories. I felt like he made the right choice, he didn't run from reality and he took the war head on, by enlisting.
ReplyDeleteO’Brien’s decision to go to war was powered by embarrassment and shame rather than the morality of fighting the war which he believed there was no moral reason for in the first place. The correctness of him calling himself a coward is debatable because on one hand, he is a coward for not doing what he believes is right and avoiding the draft, and on the other hand he isn’t a coward because he is sacrificing his life. But he isn’t risking his life for good reason, instead it is for fear of being shamed, in which case he is a coward. Elroy is like the fork in the road for O’Brien’s decision by giving him the opportunity to run away while remaining somewhat neutral in his choice.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien's decision to go to war is fueled by his embarrassment and pressure by his community. He has never told this story to anyone because of those reasons, and for the sake of preserving his masculinity. Calling himself a coward for going to war is based on him not sticking to his morals, instead following what society tells him to do. While it is true that yes, abandoning your principles is an act of cowardice, but what other choice did he have? Should he go to war and possibly face death, or avoid the draft and be seen as a traitor or coward by his family for the rest of his life? Which option seems worse to you? O'Brien had the chance to escape to Canada right in front of him, but he chose to stay and fight. His morals were compromised from the very beginning, and everyone has different opinions on whether he should have gone or not. In the end, O'Brien's enlistment was a decision made by both him and the pressure of society.
ReplyDeleteWhen people talk about themselves, they stick to stories that make them look good. They ignore the stories that paint them in an unfavorable light. This explains why O'Brien has never told his story before. It is not a story that he is proud of. He is ashamed of how cowardly he acts in this story and does not want to share it with others. O'Brien is caught between a rock and a hard place when he is drafted into the war. He feels that he should not fight in the war because he does not agree with it. But he also feels that if he runs away he will be seen as a coward by society. He has to pick between being a coward to society or being a coward to himself. A major influencer that helped O'Brien to make a decision was Elroy. Elroy listened to O'Brien and did not tell him what to do. He let O'Brien figure it out and make the nearly impossible decision for himself. O'Brien has not shared his story because even though he look good in the eye of society, he compromised his morals and saw himself as a coward.
ReplyDeleteIn the novel, Tim O'Brien tells a story that he's never told anyone before, not even his family or wife. He's never told the story to anyone before because it shows O'Brien's emotional side, which no man wants anyone to see, and it's an embarrassing reality that he wasn't very keen on sharing until now. O'Brien decides to share this story of his because he wants to relieve himself the burden of the emotional and embarrassing story that he has on his conscience. Elroy, an old man who's lodging O'Brien is staying at, is a man of few words but when he does speak his words are very meaningful. Throughout O'Brien's stay, Elroy is very influential to his decision on the young boy. Elroy does not show any opinion to why O'Brien is there and he later presents O'Brien his options. Whether or not to swim the 20 yards to Canada to escape the draft of the Vietnam War. O'Brien is conflicted in his decision and looks back and forth to either shoreline. He "sees" his family, community, friends, soldiers, etc. on the shoreline of Minnesota and then decides that he cannot handle the embarrassment from the disappointment everyone would feel towards him. His decision was a result of his manhood being on the line from the ability to take the easy way out and go to Canada. At the end of the chapter, O'Brien says, "I was a coward. I went to war." (O'Brien 58). What he means by this is that he was not brave enough to leave his family, friends, and country behind so that he could 100% guarantee his survival. He could not take the hit to his ego and manhood from the people he knew, so he took the path to the armed forces to avoid it. It's hard to say what I would do in O'Brien's shoes because I have never been in that kind of position before. I do agree with O'Brien's thinking because the worst thing that can happen to a guy is taking a hit to his manhood/ego.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the chapter, ”On the Rainy River,” Tim O’Brien recognized that he was a coward for dodging the draft and attempting to leave the country. That is why he called himself a coward and then proceeded to join the war. If I was in his circumstance, many people would presumably be frightened of being drafted so I understand why he was avoiding war. The shame and embarrassment of running away helped him drastically in deciding to join the war. Carrying the shame of running away would kill him inwardly before he would be killed in the war. This segment of the novel struck me to feel stronger regarding the choices I make and aided me to change the way I make decisions to give each choice more meaning.
ReplyDeleteBy saying that he was a coward and that he went to the war, O’Brien is showing the reader his dilemma. Either way, he would be a coward and it didn’t matter which one he picked. If he fled to Canada, he would betray his country and embarrass his entire family and all of his friends. If he went to war, he would give up his own personal convictions about the war and simply do what the government told him to do, which would be betraying his own sense and conscience. He hasn’t told this story before because he’s embarrassed that he even thought of betraying his country because he was scared. He didn’t want to make his family think any less of him, so he decided that that story would stay untold. He told the story in this book because he wanted to clear his own conscience, to write it all down and somehow find some solace in the fact that he finally owned up to what he did.
ReplyDeleteI thought Elroy was a fantastic character in the book. He never actually told Tim, but he knew what he was going through and stayed there with him to make sure he made a decision. Elroy acted as some sort of mirror for Tim, with his vague words and knowing silence, and through him is how Tim found his answer. No, he never actually told him what to do, because he knew that that was not the right way to go about things. Elroy let Tim figure it out on his own, but with some sort of a guardian angel with him. By taking him out on the boat that day, Elroy let Tim really analyze what he was thinking about doing, By just seeing Canada, it forced Tim to stop hiding in a small fishing lodge and face his problems. By not acknowledging his breakdown on the boat, it signaled to Tim that this decision was entirely his own, and that no one could make it for him. He decides to go to war only because he knew that going to Canada would seal his fate. If he died in the war, people would call him brave, a hero, even. But if he fled to Canada, he would have to live his whole life knowing that he let down his family--and even his country--and embarrassed everyone who knew him. Embarrassment was the sole reason that O’Brien did not jump off that boat on that day in the summer of 1968. If he didn’t go, he would be ashamed of himself forever. Going to war seemed like the easier option.
This sections was by far my favorite story. I loved that Elroy was there for Tim, but made it clear that Tim would have to make the decision all on his own. I feel that many of the readers, including myself, can find a relation in between us an Tim in that moment. We have all been afraid to do something (though I can’t say I’ve run away all the way to Minnesota to get away from it), and we’ve all had to make a difficult decision regarding that fear. The setting, a quaint fishing lodge in northern Minnesota in the late summer, almost felt comfortable to me when I was reading, and it was the perfect setting for Tim to figure out his issues. Whether or not this story was completely true, it was a phenomenal way for us to truly get inside the head of a man who knew that, whatever he chose, there was going to be a major downside and he just had to pick the lesser of the two. I even felt bad for him, thinking in my head what I would do if I were in his situation, and I couldn’t make a clear decision either.
At the end of "On the Rainy River," Tim calls himself a coward because he gave into the outside pressures and went to the war instead of fleeing to Canada. I believe that he is not a coward for going to the war and, in fact, would have been a coward if he ran away from what he feared and hid from it. I do, on the other hand, understand why O'Brien has never told this story, he did not want the embarrassment for him and for the people listening to the story. He decided to tell it now because he was hoping to relieve some pressures by putting it down on paper. Elroy was an old man that ran a resort in Northern Minnesota that Tim was staying at before he would flee to Canada. Elroy was almost Tim's conscience in this story because he never really talked and just put Tim to work to take his mind off of the war. He was comforting for Tim but was never going to make the decision for him, but he gave him options. He gave Tim money and he took him fishing very close to Canada to where Tim could have swam to the shore of Canada and ran. O'Brien wanted to swim into Canada but his body could not move in this situation and he was ashamed of himself for doing that and giving in to peer pressure and going to the war. Shame and embarrassment played big roles in Tim not fleeing to Canada but I do not believe that masculinity had anything to do with it. He did not want to look strong he just wanted to be safe and not die.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the chapter, O’Brien calls himself a coward because he was too scared to run away from the war and face the shame he would no doubt receive from the community back in his hometown. He was being forced to fight in a war he hated, a war he believed to be unnecessary and wrong. Instead of standing up for his opinion and fleeing to Canada to avoid the draft, though he nearly did just that, he stayed behind and went to war. He calls himself a coward because he couldn’t face the shame and embarrassment of running away from the draft. I agree with his statement that he was a coward. If he had been brave, he would have put aside the ridicule he would have received and swam across the river to escape a war he was completely opposed to. The embarrassment he felt by simply being on the river and considering escaping to Canada was enough to shame him into cowardice and send him back to America, where the war was waiting for him. Along the way, O’Brien met Elroy, who influenced his decision to turn back and go to war. Elroy took O’Brien to the Rainy River and placed the opportunity to run right in front of him. Once there, he sat in silence and let O’Brien come to the decision on his own. Elroy led O’Brien to the choice of staying behind and let him figure out on his own that he couldn’t run to Canada and face the shame of the people in his life. O’Brien never told this story before because just thinking about how he almost ran from the draft filled him with the same embarrassment and shame that filled him that day on the river. He hoped that by writing the story of how he almost fled the country, he would alleviate some of the embarrassment he still carried with him for the past twenty years.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the chapter O'Brien calls himself a coward because he decided to go to the war instead of running away to Canada. I don't agree with him. I think that if you decide to go into the war you cannot be a coward even if it is for the wrong reasons. He decided to go into the war out of embarassment from others but that doesn't make it the wrong choice. Going into the war is a huge deal. O'Brien never told the story before because he was so embarrassed for the reason he decided to go into the war. I believe O'Brien decided to tell us now how it went down after he found out he was being drafted into the war because it was a huge burden. He was so ready to let go and just let everyone know the truth. He didn't want everything that happened to be hanging over his head anymore. Elroy is a very wise old man. Instead of judging him or voicing his opinion he just brought O'Brien to the border to make a choice. In the end Elroy did help O'Brien make his choice to go into the war.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the chapter "On the Rainy River," when O'Brien says, "I was a coward, I went to the war," I think he means that it would have been braver if he had ran away from the war and have other people call him a coward rather than to let them tell him what he needs to do. I do not agree with his saying because I believe that when people go into war, they know all the bad things that could happen and the fact that he even went into war was very brave. O'Brien did not tell anyone this story because he was embarrassed to share why exactly he went into war. I think that O'Brien waited so long to tell the story because it was easy to keep a secret since the only people who really knew about it was him and Elroy. Elroy did not speak much about the war to O'Brien, but when he takes him out on the river, it really shows him the decision he is about to make. On the river when O'Brien starts to cry, he feels embarrassed, like he almost has to go to war to prove that he is not weak. I enjoyed this section in the book because Elroy is a really nice addition to the story. He helped Tim, who was a complete stranger to him, make possibly the biggest decision of his life.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of "On the Rainy River," the narrator says, "I was a coward. I went to the war." What I think O'Brien means by this is that he gave in to society. He let the fear of disappointing and embarrassing his family and himself win over his own morals. He believed the war was wrong, but he let social standards make him fight for a war he did not agree with. Although I can understand his logic I don't agree with it. Although, O'Brien did not agree with the war it is his duty as an American citizen to defend his country and support the movement for freedom. So, I can't say he was a coward for deciding to fight for his country because, if anything, he was brave. It took lots of courage to place his country's needs and ideas before his own and I think that's what it means to be an American citizen. I believe that O'Brien never told story because he was embarrassed. He wanted people to believe he was this brave guy that loved his country and that the first shot he got to defend his country he took it. Although, that wasn't his story. He was scared as anyone would be and that embarrassed him. I believe that O'Brien decided to include this story in his book because it is something that he carries. He feels regret for acting the way he did and so he had to carry that burden throughout the war, as well as, after the war. So I imagine O'Brien writing this story in "The Things They Carried" was a way of getting rid of one of those things he carried in his life.
ReplyDeleteO’Brien throughout the novel expresses his feeling about going to war and they become very apparent in the chapter “On the Rainy River.” O’Brien does not support going to war and does not think that all people should be required to serve in it. He believes there are some instants in which he believes that going to war is necessary, such as World War Two. But, he believes that Vietnam is not one of those instances. Despite how much he doesn’t want to serve in the war, he goes to Vietnam. Serving in this war goes against what he wants to do and what he believes in. But, he does it because he fears being judged by friends and family and he is scared of how the town will react to his decision. O’Brien finds a chance to dodge the draft and avoid the embarrassment from his family by trying to flee to Canada. He meets an old man named Elory who offers him food and shelter while trying to get to Canada. Elory takes O’Brien to the Rainy River where he finally makes the decision to draft rather than running. O’Brien considers Elory to be his hero that helped him through the internal conflict he was having at that time. He never told his story of feeling hesitation before going overseas because he was afraid of embarrassing himself. He decided to include this story because he wanted to get it off his chest. He calls himself a coward because instead of listening to what his instincts were telling him, he gave in to the pressure and went to war.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien says that he is a coward because he let the fear of embarrassment keep him from running away,so he went against himself and fought in a war he did not think the US should be fighting. I think he feels that he was a coward because he let what other people would say about his actions affect his decision to, in his opinion, better his life by cheating the draft. However, I do not believe that he is a coward. I feel like fleeing the country would have been the easy way out even though he would be leaving things he loved behind. I think Elroy was an interesting man because although he did not say much to O'Brien his actions led O'Brien to feel that he had support in whatever decision he would eventually make. Elroy never stated he knew what O'Brien was doing. He knew by saying something O'Brien would have been scared off, so instead he comforted a kid who was fighting an internal battle. Elroy took Obrien on a boat ride on the rainy River and subtly gave him the opportunity to flee and get away from the war that he disagreed with, but by doing so he helped O'Brien realize what he really needed to do. O'Brien never shared the story because although he fought in the war and evaded the embarrassment of fleeing the country he knew by even having gone as far as he did he would still have been made fun of in his small town.
ReplyDeleteHe only finally felt comfortable stating it in his book because he needed to get it off of his chest and it helped show how the war inevitably changed him by the end.
O'brien call himself a coward because he really didn't want to go to war in the first place. The main reason he is going because he doesn't want to look like a coward on the outside, but on the inside he has reasonable doubts.He feels that people would be clapping for the wrong reasons if he went to war but he still needs a better perspective of himself. Also in the back of his mind he is ashamed to make this decision to go to war. This is a trait that is still relevant today. Some people go to war and come back bragging and telling stories, others just keep to themselves and take it to the grave. I don't believe that o’brien is a coward, this decision is literally a life changing one. You can't tell me that all of the other soldiers or normal people second guess themselves in any big life changing decision. And at the end of the day he still went which means he just had to suck it up and move on which is the way to go. He tells story now because he finally claimed and accepted his past and a way to vent. Meeting Elroy gave O’brien a way of self awareness.He was like a mentor to O’brien to trulley look at his life and is he happy for himself, like outer mediation. I believe that going to war was a good decision for o’brien because if he hadn't gone then he would of really felt weak.Im not saying that he should base himself around what the nation would view him as but situation like that builds character.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien calls himself a coward for basing his decision to go to the war on his fear of what everyone would think of him if he didn't. Although it may not be the morally correct decision to flee when you are called to war, I think that not leaving does make him a coward. He could have easily gotten to Canada thanks to Elroy; however, he chose not to stand up against a war he did not believe in to please everyone else. Elroy played a non significant role in O'Brien deciding to go to war. Elroy was simply their for O'Brien no matter what he decided and gave no opinions or judgement on the matter. I believe that this section shows an interesting perspective on the Vietnamese war. O'Brien did not tell this story before because he was too embarrassed that he even thought about not staying to fight for his country. He tells the story now to show what was going through his mind when the war began and how it effected him and potentially other veterans. This book was a way for O'Brien to share his stories and provide a new perspective on the thought of soldiers.
ReplyDeleteNear the end of the chapter "On the Rainy River," O'Brien says "I was a coward. I went to the war." He says this after telling a story that he has never told anyone before. O’Brien had never shared this story because he was scared of what others might think of him. He did not want anyone knowing that he was scared about going to war, which was a man’s duty. He exclaims this sentence that includes what had conflicted him: being a coward. He knew that he was a coward because he was too scared to run away, or go to war. When he got drafted he knew that war was against most of what he believed in, but not fully, it made him question internally what he should do. He decides to run to the border of Canada, and stays with an older man named Elroy. One day they go out fishing together and O’Brien breaks down as he thinks about swimming to the other side of the border, Elroy pretends as though nothing has happened. O’Brien makes up his mind, it doesn;t matter what he wants to do,he doesn’t want others to think of him as a coward for not going. He will not make a joke of himself, his family and friends. He decides to go because the impact of what other people might think of him. While reading this I agreed with O’Brien. I think that it is perfectly okay with being scared of a huge decision like going to war, especially if you don’t get to make that decision yourself.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien states that he was a coward but meant it for two reasons. If O'Brien ran away, he would be a coward. If O'Brien went back to war, he would be a coward. Although O'Brien went to war, he meant that he was a coward for not committing to his escape to Canada. If O'Brien had decided to head to Canada, he would say that he is coward for running away from war. O'Brien told this story to get it off of his chest. He didn't want to hold this story as a burden for the rest of his life, but was too immature to tell it before. Elroy was a great character, listening to O'Brien the entire time but not speaking of his disagreement out loud, while instead having O'Brien make a decision himself. Elroy serves as almost a therapist, listening to everything O'Brien has to say. I thought that this section displayed the dilemma of many soldiers going to war, and the fear that comes along with it.
ReplyDeleteIn the novel The Thing They Carried, O'Brien calls himself a coward for going to war. He is afraid of what others would say about him if he doesn't go to war. I think that going to war does make him a coward. Instead of standing up for himself and his feelings for the war, he let peer pressure get the best of him. He has never told this story before because he was afraid of what others might say. He was afraid people might judge him for not wanting to go to war and take the easy way out by fleeing to Canada. He decides now to tell this story because he finally accepts this part in his life and doesn't care what others say about him for it. Elroy knew how to support O'Brien without having to say much about the war and helping O'Brien come to a conclusion about whether to go to war or not. Elroy took O'Brien out on a boat ride and gave him the opportunity to flee to Canada. O'Brien decided to draft whether than flee because he felt embarrassed not going to war. I feel like this is what many soldiers go through when they find out they've been drafted. They all feel scared at first, but go anyways because they probably feel embarrassed not to, like O'Brien did.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien says that he is a coward for going to war because he feared the embarrassment of not going. He did not exactly believe in what he would be fighting for and he thought the war was unjust. He was just fearing being thought of as a coward. I do agree that in some ways he is a coward. He was choosing to go not because he wanted to fight for his country, because he was dedicated to the cause, but because he did not want the people around him to think badly of him. I believe that if you're going to fight for something you really have to have motivation behind it or else you aren't truly fighting for what you believe in. O'Brien has never told the story before because he was scared of what others would think. He decides to do it at that moment because he just really felt the need to get it off of his chest. I feel like Elroy was such a good character who really helped O'Brien truly look at himself, his morals, his decisions and his reasoning. Elroy was somebody who listened to him which I feel like O'Brien really needed that the most. Elroy was incredibly kind and was there for him at the right time. O'Brien eventually decides to go back to war because he knows that if he doesn't, it will weigh on him for the rest of his life. He also does not want to let anybody in his life down. He didn't want to embarrass himself by fleeing to Canada and running away from fighting for his country which is what his peers and family want. I understand how O'Brien feels in this situation because most people feel horrible letting people they love down. Nobody wants to be seen as a coward, nobody wants to be seen as an embarrassment. I feel we have all done something that would sacrifice ourselves in some way for another person or our family.
ReplyDeleteWhen O'Brien says this at the end of the chapter I think he means by this that he was so afraid of what others would think so he left. Previously he says how if he did run away to Canada he would basically be ruining his reputation everyone would know he was to afraid to go to the war. I don't think I agree with this because I think this was the case for many other men during the war. Especially younger men who were just finishing school or entering it and getting ready to begin their lives. I do see why O'Brien would have this mindset though. O'Brien has never told this story before because he probably wants to seem like he bravely went to the war with zero hesitation. He decides to do so now because it was a weight on his shoulders one of the big secrets he has been keeping even from his wife and kids. Elroy seems like a very wise man who has seen lots of different people and situations while running his business. Elroy had a very strong influence on O'Brien. He was the sturdiness and structure he was looking for that he couldn't find at home. Elroy influenced his final decision by showing him that he had Canada right at his fingertips the whole time but he was with Elroy for a reason. Shame and embarrassment play a heavy role in his decision. It seems that every scenario that he runs through his head will always lead him back. He feels a sense of having to prove his masculinity while at the same time battling with himself that he can't do it.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien calls himself a coward because he went to the war to avoid being shamed by his community for not going to the war. He didn't see the point in the Vietnam war, so he didn't want to go die in a war he was confused about. I agree that going to war made him a coward because he chose not to go to Canada because he was afraid what others would think about him. O'Brien has never told this story before because he was embarrassed and shameful that he was so close to running away from the war. He decided to tell it now because he hopes by telling the story it will release some of the guilt he is carrying. Elroy was an eighty-one year old man who offered O'Brien a silent, watchful presence that he needed. O'Brien says that Elroy saved his life. Elroy's influence on O'Brien is he gives him a chance to make a decision on his own. Elroy takes him out on his fishing boat and he stops just twenty yards from Canada. When Tim was standing there deciding whether or not to jump out and swim, he thought about his family and the life he would be leaving behind if he didn't go to war. Shame and embarrassment is the reason for his decision. As a man it was expected that Tim go and fight for his country. Although O'Brien didn't see the point in the war he fell into the pressure of what was expected of him. When I read this section I thought about how hard it must have been to risk your life for something you don't believe in. The importance of the choice he had to make really made me understand how the Vietnam war in particular was so difficult.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of “On the Rainy River,” the narrator said he was a coward for going to war because he was only going to avoid the judgment from his family and community. I do not think O’Brien was a coward because most people would second guess their decision to risk their life and go to war. Fleeing to Canada was an option for O’Brien and I think many people in his situation would also consider this. Either way, O’Brien had no option other than to leave his family which is already hard enough. O’Brien never told this story before because he was embarrassed by it and if no one knew about him almost leaving then he didn’t have to be a coward in other’s eyes. I think he decided to tell his story now because he has come to accept what happened and he hopes to relieve himself of some of the guilt he still carries. Elroy is a man who came to help O’Brien in this time and offered opportunities to help Tim figure out what he wanted to do. Elroy was quiet but still heroic due to his efforts to help Tim. Elroy took Tim out on a boat and gave him the opportunity to swim to Canada, but also to think about what he would be leaving behind. I think shame, embarrassment, and masculinity all play a role in Tim’s decision because this relates back to how he didn’t want his community to think less of him when his roles in society were to step-up and serve for his country. This section made me think about what Tim was going through and how he was feeling. If I was in the same situation I feel that I would be having the same thoughts as Tim and wouldn’t want to have to fight in a war that I wasn’t even sure in my beliefs about.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of "On the Rainy River" the narrator had said he was a coward for going to the war because he went for other people and not himself. It was not his decision to go and would have rather fled but coward away from his own dreams for the fear of embarrassment and his peers being ashamed of him. I feeel that to a point this is cowardly because he did not follow his dreams but additionally he did as most people would and follow others wishes to avoid disappointment. I also feel that embarrassment is why O'Brien has never told this story before because he did coward away from what he wanted and did not want to let people know what he really wanted to do. I feel that he told his story now to get it off his chest and to almost relieve himself and show others how some people felt about the war.
ReplyDeleteWhy has O'Brien never told this story before? Why does he decide to do so now? Elroy is O'Brien's "ticket to freedom" he was willing to take O'Brien to Canada to flee the war but O'Brien realized that Canada would not be perfect and that it was false hope. O'Brien realizes that him the shame of not going to war and the disappointment would be worse than going to war and killing people and potentially dying. I feel that embarrassment?shame were the reasons that O'Brien went.
At the end of “On The Rainy River” the narrator said that he was a coward for going to war because he ran away from his family and then had no choice. I believe he felt he was a coward due to the fact that he did not speak to anyone about what he was going through. He truly didn’t want to go to the war, however, he did it anyways. I do not think this makes him a coward. I think it makes him brave, even though it is something he didn’t want to do. I think that he could’ve spoke to a parent about it instead of running away, however. O’Brien never told this story before because he was afraid of what people would think of him. His friends, his family, he was afraid that they would’ve judged him for his decisions in the past. He is telling his story now as an important decision that in the end, made an impact on his life. I believe Elroy had a positive impact on Tim. He made him look into reality and realize what were the right decisions to make. Without directly saying it, I think Elroy wanted Tim to go to the war, and helped him out by supporting him.
ReplyDeleteIn the chapter “On the Rainy River”, O’Brien talks about the struggles he has never told anyone, including his wife and closest family. I believe he has never told this story to anyone because he was embarrassed and scared of other people's opinions. He felt like a coward in many ways. He felt like a coward because he ran away from the war and his people, but also because he was too scared to stick up for how he felt about going into war. He knew society would not understand why he did all he did, so he kept it inside. I believe he ended up telling the story to help others going through similar issues. Elroy influenced O’Brien without doing any dramatic actions. He sat back and let O’Brien do what he wanted, but still tried to point him in the right direction. For example, when they were fishing near Canada and O’Brian didn’t know what to do, Elroy sat and let him decide for himself because he already influenced him by taking him out there. As I read this section, I started to change my perspective on society. O'Brien was a young man getting sent to war, not sure what to do. No one cared to help him besides Elroy, who helped him by letting him stay with him for 6 days, tried to give him money, and cooked for him. Society judges people so much they are scared to do what they believe is right because others might not agree.
ReplyDeletehe calls himself a coward because he allows his shame of abandoning his country to overpower his survivor instinct. I do not believe that he is a coward because he chose to defend his country, but i also do not believe he would be a coward if he decided to pursue his aspirations. I imagine he didn't tell anybody out of embarrassment but eventually decided to tell the story in his book. Elroy allowed O' Brien to contemplate his actions, Elroy even gave Brien the choice of whether to flee to Canada or to fight in Vietnam by taking him to the border on a boat.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien calls himself a coward because he allows himself to succumb to peer pressure from his parents and community instead of standing up for what he believed in. I think he is a coward because he chose to let others trample over his decisions. He never told this story because of the moral freeze that took over him, only allowing him to sob instead of act.He tells the story to relieve some of the pressure on himself. Elroy helps him out by giving him a place to stay and gather his thoughts, he also led Tim out to the edge of the river where he could make his decision. Masculinity played a part in Tim's decision because if he went to Canada, his whole community would shame him and call him a coward. I thought that it was brave of him to open up to the reader and tell us a hard part in his life.
ReplyDeleteTim O'Brien has never told this story before because he thinks that it deems him as a coward and he is slightly embarrassed by it. He debated for a while about whether or not to run away to Canada or to stay and go to the war. The only reason he did not go to Canada was that he was afraid of what everyone might say about him and his family. So, O'Brien is calling himself a coward. He allows himself to fall under the pressure of everyone around him and go to the draft instead. He decided to tell this story now because he lived with it for so long and he was trying to relieve some of the stress his decision has caused him in his life.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the chapter “On the Rainy River” O’Brien decides to go to war, He call himself a coward for it. I think he means that he didn’t have the courage to fight in the war at the time. He feared it. O’Brien was you and he didn’t know what he wanted. He was scared of the war like any other person. He didn’t want to go to war so he tried to flee. He stopped short for a while and then decided to go back. That’s when he gained the courage. He never told this story because he was embarrassed of what people would think of him. O’Brien knew running away wasn’t going to solve any of his problems. Elroy was the owner of The Tip Top Lodge. Elroy took in O’Brien when he was attempting to escape the war. Elroy never really had much to say but he always knew what you were thinking. Elroy gave O’Brien a security fund so he had money if he was going to flee to Canada. O’Brien ended up just going to the war because he didn’t want to endure the embarrassment of fleeing the war.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter truly shows you what it was like to be a young man during the war. I can not imagine what O'Brien felt like. He had to choose between what seemed like life and death. He could go to Canada and be safe or he could go to war and fight for his life. He was under great pressure. He was embarrassed and he knew his family would be embarrassed. He did not want to be viewed as a coward by other people. When he was twenty yards away from Canada all he could imagine was what people would say about him. He decided he could not run and he needed to go to war. Although it made him seem like he was not a coward, he felt like he was a coward because he wanted to run but he could not do it.
ReplyDeleteWhen O'Brien said "what would you do" it really made me think. I cant imagine being that young and thrown into a war. The strength it would take mentally and physically is huge. I would not have been able to run. I would have not wanted to disappoint my family just like he did not want to disappoint his.
Throughout this chapter, I felt for O'Brien. I couldn't imagine being in his situation and having to make such a critical, basically life or death, situation. I felt his emotional split and the pressure society was putting on him, with him being a young man during this time period. When Elroy cam into the story, it was almost as if he was a buffer between the two choices O'Brien was caught between. Elroy didn't ask any questions or comment on anything, he just let the young man make his own decisions and help him with whatever he chose to do. I think that what O'Brien meant by saying he was a coward for going to the war was that he gave in to the thought of the embarrassment and shame that his town would've showed him instead of sticking up for himself and his own beliefs.
ReplyDeletePart of living and growing up is making life-changing decisions. In the chapter, On a Rainy River, Tim O’Brien shows the reader a side to him that had never been let out before. We get a look into his thought process during the time when he was set to be drafted into the Vietnam War. If this story never got shared, nobody would have ever thought that the young man was a coward for going to the war because that was expected from him. I think that he calls himself this at the end of the chapter because he let other people’s opinions influence his own decisions. O’Brien didn’t think he was a good fit for the war due to his amount of education and thought it would be best if he fled to Canada to avoid the draft. This isn’t the kind of story you would want to get out, but I believe he wrote this because guilt had a lot of weight and sometimes the only way to free yourself is to accept what happened.
ReplyDeleteOne character that played a big role in this chapter was a man named Elroy. He let O’Brien stay in his cottage and gave him money to help support him on the trip to Canada although he never stated this. It was a big “actions speak louder than words” moment that had such a big influence on Tim O’Brien. He had all of the necessities to flee, yet it almost made it too easy. There was nothing masculine or brave about getting out of the draft and he knew that the embarrassment would catch up to him eventually. Because of this, it would be easier to go to Vietnam and fight than to be looked down upon by fellow soldiers and his family.
When O'Brien calls himself a coward for going to the war, he means that he thinks of himself as cowardly for submitting to the pressure of his obligation to his country and the shame of disappointing his family, friends, and acquaintances instead of standing up for his beliefs and fleeing a war he felt was wrong. I can sympathize with this feeling. I have always hated having an obligation to do something I didn't believe in and on a matter of principle, I will avoid said things at all costs. At the same time, I wouldn't go so far as to call it cowardice when he refused to flee to Canada. Dodging the draft would keep him alive, but cost him his whole life back in America. It's terrifying to abandon everything you've ever known and I don't think less of Tim as a person for not taking the opportunity when it presented itself.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien has probably never told the story of his experience on the rainy river because of the shame behind the circumstances that brought him there in the first place. There is a common hatred of those who evaded or feared the draft among the most patriotic of Americans and Tim seems very worried about his image in the period before his service in the war. He may have decided to tell this story now because time has distanced us from that war and many now understand the issues it came with and may not see him as some wuss or villain when he tells them the story.
Elroy was an interesting part of the development of O'Brien's decision to stay and allow himself to be drafted. The man never said a word to O'Brien about what the boy was doing there, only kept him fed and busy. It was apparent, though, that he didn't have to ask. When Elroy takes O'Brien out onto the river dividing the two countries, he knows full well what he's doing. O'Brien is also very aware of the fact that Elroy knows what he's planning and I think that added surveillance added to the boy's deep shame about what he was going to do. The pressure he felt to simply fall into line combined with the fact that he felt running away made him less of a man was the final factor that brought him to his decision to stick around.
At the end of the chapter "On the Rainy River", O'Brien calls himself a coward. I believe this was brought on by him attempting to avoid the embarrassment from his community for not going to war. Though I do not necessarily agree with this, I can also see where he would be coming from; he felt that he was a coward for being more worried about what other people thought of him than his own thoughts. He has never told this story because he most likely did not want to relive the shame and humiliation brought with the situation. I think that he chose to tell the story now because of the time passed from the events to the present. Elroy played a key role in O'Brien's decision regarding being drafted or staying. Elroy made it clear that he would help O'Brien escape from the war if that was what he wanted. I personally feel that Elroy was a positive person in O'Brien's life and impacted him in ways that others did not. While reading this section, I continually thought about today's society and how many people are affected by what others may think of them and their decisions.
ReplyDeleteWhen Tim O'Brien said "on the Rainy River, I was a coward. I went to the war," he was referring to himself giving into the pressure put on him by his community to go over to Vietnam and fight in the war. To me, Tim O'Brien was not a coward and, in fact, was very brave. He was only twenty yards away from starting a new life in Canada and totally avoiding the war. Instead of deserting, he joined the US military over in Vietnam. He could of easily dodged the draft, but instead, he decided to enlist. To me, risking your life for the greater good of America is an extremely brave thing to do. In The Things They Carried, this story is mentioned for the first time ever. The reason this was the first time for this story being told was because O'Brien was embarrassed about almost deserting America for Canada. Tim decided to reveal this story because he was never able to thank the man that he said saved him, Elroy Berdhal. Elroy Berdhal was a quiet old man and the owner of the Tip Top Lodge. He understood why O'Brien was there, but said nothing about it. One day, Elroy took Tim out on a boat into the Rainy River. They were only around 20 yards away from Canada at one point. This ultimately resulted in Tim cracking and not being able to jump in and swim over to Canada, thus forcing him to go to Vietnam. In a way, Berdhal shamed O'Brien into traveling back to his hometown to join the military. My reaction to this whole situation was surprise. It amazed me how much someone can influence another without even saying a word.
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ReplyDeleteO’Brien has never voiced this story to anyone but he felt he should get it off of his chest. He went through his thought processes from the moment he received his draft letter to the moment he decided to end up going to war. War should not happen without a legitimate purpose. We are told about his experiences at work and the day that he last worked and how he just left without a second thought. The day that the draft letter was received, he had a very clear memory. There is an explanation of the fact that there was “no happy way out” (p. 41). He had no plan and ended up sleeping in his car for a night. Once he ended up at Elory’s he felt as it was that it was supposed to happen this way. Elory knew what was going on without asking and he kept out of it because he knew that it was best. O’Brien imagined things that he couldn’t bring himself to do in war. He also feared getting caught on the run. Elory couldn’t be thanked enough for the shelter and opportunities that he provided. O’Brien did work for Elory partially to keep his mind off of his thoughts about which decision to make. Elory provided a chance to run to Canada for freedom but he didn’t push any words out or and decisions. When the narrator says “I was a coward. I went to the war.” He is referring to the fact that he went to war based on what society would think of him if he had fled.
Tim O’Brien hesitates to confess the chapter, “On the Rainy River” because it is far from something that he is proud of. In this story, he elaborates his reluctance to join the war and even goes into great detail about his attempt at avoidance of the war altogether. O’Brien hopes that in telling this story, it will help him to move past what has caused him a great deal of stress for years, and relieve some baggage he continues to carry from the war. O’Brien’s internal conflict in regard to the war is one of the most significant conflicts in the novel. He is divided between his desire to remain living his life unchanged, and the disappointment and embarrassment that is attached to not fulfilling his duty in the war. Tim O’Brien had a very important decision to make, which would affect him for the rest of his life. Tim made this decision entirely by himself, and although Elroy was present, his role was insignificant. Elroy provided support to Tim and reassured him that regardless of what choice he made, he had his approval. Tim did not want to be thought of any less for his decision, by the people in his town, so he goes against his own beliefs and because of this he refers to himself as a coward.
ReplyDeleteThe story On Rainy River is about O’Brien’s hesitation regarding going to the war. At the end of this story O’Brien calls himself a coward for going to the war. I believe he said this because of the reason he went, which was not because he was willing to fight for his country or supported the government’s decision to go to war. He went because he was more afraid of the embarrassment and shame, he would bring himself and his family and friends than he was of going to the war. I do think that this action makes him a type of coward because he compromised his morals for fear of embarrassment, but on the other hand it takes courage to do the right thing. O’Brien never told this story before because of the shame and embarrassment he felt for doing what he did. I think he is in a place now where he doesn’t care what others think of him and wanted to share his story. Elroy is a large influence on O’Brien’s decision not to run. Elroy managed to show his opinion without outright stating it, while being respectful and understanding of how difficult the decision was. He gives O’Brien the opportunity to make the decision for himself, which made a huge impact on the further events in his life.
ReplyDeleteIn the chapter On Rainy River, O'Brien says the statement "I was a coward. I went to the war" He says this statement because when he got the letter in the mail saying he was drafted, one of his first thoughts was to run and start a new life in Canada. He says that him choosing to go to the war is the choice of a coward because, yes he was scared of death and the idea of being in the war, but he was more afraid of the embarrassment of fleeing and being exiled by his family and the town of people he grew up with. Going to the war was the cowards choice he says because it was the easy choice. No one can hate him for it, he doesn't have to start over, it's the choice that everyone would want him to choose and therefore he knows that it's the easier choice. O'Brien had never told this story before out of sheer shame and embarrassment he felt for even thinking of fleeing the country and avoiding going to the war. He believed he had a good life ahead of him and he didn't deserve to be drafted into a war that he didn't even believe in himself. O'Brien did begin to flee at one point and made his way to some small cabins near the border of Canada. When he was there, he met the owner, an old man by the name of Elroy. He was a very quiet old man with not much to say. But even though he didn't speak much and O'Brien didn't tell him what really was going on, he knew and he stated his opinion in his actions more than his words. He ultimately was one of the main reasons O'Brien chose to go back and serve. He allowed him space and time to think on his own while still offering his advice in his actions. At this time in history and the age that O'Brien was, there was no doubt that Elroy easily figured out why he was there at that time of the year. However, instead of ridiculing him for running, he gave him food, shelter, and time to think and ultimately that is one of the best things anyone could've done for him in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteIn "On the Rainy River", O'Brien calls himself a coward for having too much pride to do what he thinks is right. O'Brien believed the war did not need to happen, but when he received the draft letter he was afraid of disappointing his family, friends, and the community. When making the decision to run, O'Brien thought he could avoid the war but he was afraid of what the community would have to say about his decision to run. O'Brien figured Elroy knew the real reason he was staying at the lodge because Elroy is a smart man. On the last day he was at the lodge, the two men go on a boat ride and Elroy takes the boat to Canada, but he turns back after O'Brien bursts into tears thinking about what he is about to do. The next morning, O'Brien is headed back to his hometown to sign up for the war. I think O'Brien's pride got in the way of what he believes in. He was too scared to flee to Canada because of the negative feedback he would have received from his hometown, so he signs himself up for a war that he does not believe in. Masculinity and pride can often be obstacles in men's lives, and this happens to be one of those times where a man has to do the opposite of what he wants to do in the name of pride and being "manly".
ReplyDeleteWhile O'Brien thinks he is a coward, I don't think so. He accepts that he is a coward since he didn't have the boldness to flee to Canada, yet rather he surrendered to the weight of heading off to the war. He would've been embarrassed if he would've told the story, provoking his cowardly self-image. He doesn't care about others opinion's on him, which is why I think he tells the story. A big influencer that helped O'Brien to settle on a choice was Elroy. Elroy understood to O'Brien and didn't try to control him. He let O'Brien make sense of it and settle on the difficult choice for himself.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien says he is a coward going to war because his choice to enter the war was the easy way out. He abandoned his actions taken against the war in college and has given into societal pressure. O'Brien has never told the story before because of shame and embarrassment, but has decided to tell Elroy because of his intuition that Elroy realizes why O'Brien is next to the border. Elroy, being a quiet old man, influences O'Brien by letting the decision weigh on him, although shame plays a major part in the decision. I think that O'Brien lets societal pressures abandon his feelings against the war, leading him to take the easy decision and enter the war.
ReplyDeleteIn "On the Rainy River", O'Brien calls himself a coward not due to him going to war, but for the reason why he is going to war. O'Brien believes he was a coward since he is only going to war so his community wont shame him and bring embarrassment to his family's name. I believe he is not a coward since he ended up going to war instead of running away from his fear. The reason O'Brien finally tells his story is because he overcame his fear and wanted to others to hear it. Someone who really helped O'Brien reach his decision was a man by the name of Elroy. Elroy was the hotel owner of were O'Brien worked before he went to war. Elroy knew that O'Brien was thinking of fleeing the country due to war so he took O'Brien to the border of Canada. By doing this he was able to help O'Brien make a decision without doing it for him.
ReplyDeleteIn the chapter “On The Rainy River” O’Brien call himself a coward. He feels like this because he couldn’t get himself to run away. In my opinion I do not think he’s a coward. In fact, he’s the opposite. After what O’Brien has been through he should have the right to choose to go home without thinking he’s a coward. Just because others are trying to define you doesn’t mean you have to listen to them. Elroy helps O’Brien through his crisis and wanted to show his story to us.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the chapter, "On the Rainy River", the author calls himself a coward. By this he means that is embarrassed and ashamed that he was hesitant to go to war. I do not really agree with this because I can totally see how someone would not just want to jump into war. Although I can see how he would feel that way because of everyone else going to war and him being not so sure. I still would not consider him a coward. This story has remained untold to most likely save him from the humiliation of it and the feeling of guilt it brought him. I think that he decided to tell it now to simply get it off of his chest. Elroy was the ultimate factor on O'Brien's decision. Elroy helps him through his hard times and pushed him to keep going. While reading this section I continually thought about today's society. I thought about how many people are scared to do things because they are afraid of what others will say or how they will look. Also shows how we really are affected by the people around us, and how their words and actions can cause us to make our decisions.
ReplyDeleteIn "On the Rainy River," O'Brien delves deep into the core of human emotion. This decision strips him raw right down to his true self, and the question came: "What matters more? My social well-being or my physical well-being?" And he decided that he'd rather face true death rather than the death of his character at home. It was cowardice, but not in the connotation that we normally perceive it to be. It was weighing the outcomes for himself personally, rather than at a survivalist point of view. He would die for certain if left for Canada; not physically, but he would be leaving his entire life as he knew it behind. War meant keeping his life but at the threat of death. He never told this story before because of his embarrassment. The expectations of a soldier are bravery, courage, and facing challenges head-on. It's an image that holds men like O'Brien to a painful standard, one that's entirely inhuman. Elroy affected this decision with his silence. He isolated the problem in Tim's mind, forcing him to come to a decision. Tim had just been running on the fly without thought of the consequences he might face. Elroy gave him the time and space to really consider the options at hand and the paths that followed. And so Tim had to face the silent scrutiny of this man. It made him think of how he might be perceived for his actions and how the elements of his life would accordingly change. Reading this section made me hope for change. Change in the perception of men and soldiers in this society. Change in the way foreign politics are handled. Change int he way that war is pushed forward, change so that men like Tim won't have to go to war anymore. Reading this section, I saw how the decision really cracked Tim as a human being, and it made me wish that such a painful thing wouldn't have to happen anymore.
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